Tapp primary and secondary update

[Raidernut]

So I got a chance to test out tapp primary and secondary this weekend in glamis with 100 degree temps. I also installed the RPM blower fan and razorback temp guage. Some interesting results. Belt temps when just cruising around through smaller dunes and hard pack were avg 145. The highest temps I recorded were 194 on a full throttle Olds hill climb. Faster paced duning was a consistent 194-195. When I came to a stop however instead of belt temps climbing the rpm blower would immediately begin to cool the cvt housing and belt down. I know there is some misconception out there about the blower being an obstruction but by its larger than the tube design I don't think that is the case. One thing to note is i did follow some guidance from some of you on tapp primary set up. Most of you added a bunch of weight to keep rpms down. I had mine set up with 2 screws each in all the roller arms and clickers on #2. What i found was that my RPMs were too low with this setting average 8200 from 0 to 55 wide open throttle. From my dyno testing I know my car makes max power from 9000-9500. I decided against doing any clutch adjustments to bring rpms up because it was a short trip and just way too hot out. Other than the low rpms it ran smooth and had no belt issues.

 

[Sand Shark]

Good information. I would expect the blower fan to reduce belt/clutch heat when stopped as it keeps the airflow going.

 

[ElQueso]

Awesome info. I too did some extensive testing with the TAPP primary and secondary a few weeks ago in Glamis (although I had to deal with the wind, not the heat) and got some great results as well. Have a look at the vid if you'd like. EVO shipped the primary/secondary so quickly and helped me with some baseline settings so can't say enough about them. What I found is that in the dunes, clickers at #3 with no screws was the "best" setting for me. *It did get hot in the straight sections and lacked the overall HP chasing down my buddies in sand cars but was a hell of a lot of fun ripping the tight dunes. If I had the time I would have set the clickers to 3 or 4 and would have added more washers to the bolts to see what that would've done to my top speed. Next time I guess. Very curious about the RPM blower as well...I didn't install it with my Razorback but have that option and am considering it.

 

[Sand Shark]

Awesome info. I too did some extensive testing with the TAPP primary and secondary a few weeks ago in Glamis (although I had to deal with the wind, not the heat) and got some great results as well. Have a look at the vid if you'd like. EVO shipped the primary/secondary so quickly and helped me with some baseline settings so can't say enough about them. What I found is that in the dunes, clickers at #3 with no screws was the "best" setting for me. *It did get hot in the straight sections and lacked the overall HP chasing down my buddies in sand cars but was a hell of a lot of fun ripping the tight dunes. If I had the time I would have set the clickers to 3 or 4 and would have added more washers to the bolts to see what that would've done to my top speed. Next time I guess. Very curious about the RPM blower as well...I didn't install it with my Razorback but have that option and am considering it.

Did you run with the clutch cover on now that EVO has the kit to adapt it for the Tapp Secondary?

Nice video!

 

[ElQueso]

Did you run with the clutch cover on now that EVO has the kit to adapt it for the Tapp Secondary?

Nice video!

Yep, sure did. The EVO clutch cover adapter fit on there perfectly and I ran the cover on the entire time. No blown belts at all.

 

[AXE]

So I got a chance to test out tapp primary and secondary this weekend in glamis with 100 degree temps. I also installed the RPM blower fan and razorback temp guage. Some interesting results. Belt temps when just cruising around through smaller dunes and hard pack were avg 145. The highest temps I recorded were 194 on a full throttle Olds hill climb. Faster paced duning was a consistent 194-195. When I came to a stop however instead of belt temps climbing the rpm blower would immediately begin to cool the cvt housing and belt down. I know there is some misconception out there about the blower being an obstruction but by its larger than the tube design I don't think that is the case. One thing to note is i did follow some guidance from some of you on tapp primary set up. Most of you added a bunch of weight to keep rpms down. I had mine set up with 2 screws each in all the roller arms and clickers on #2. What i found was that my RPMs were too low with this setting average 8200 from 0 to 55 wide open throttle. From my dyno testing I know my car makes max power from 9000-9500. I decided against doing any clutch adjustments to bring rpms up because it was a short trip and just way too hot out. Other than the low rpms it ran smooth and had no belt issues.

Great to hear! Did you consider the Razorback fan as well? I called them and asked about the compatibility for dunes and higher speed running. They made it sound like it was better for rock crawling and mudding. It's $400 and is controlled thermostatically by the guage. I want to use one, but wanted to plumb in a second intake tube. Not sure there's a good place for one tho!

 

[Raidernut]

Great to hear! Did you consider the Razorback fan as well? I called them and asked about the compatibility for dunes and higher speed running. They made it sound like it was better for rock crawling and mudding. It's $400 and is controlled thermostatically by the guage. I want to use one, but wanted to plumb in a second intake tube. Not sure there's a good place for one tho!

I used the RPM fan not the razorback. The razorback is same diameter as the intake tube where the rpm is much larger allowing air at high speeds to funnel around the fan and not just through it . It is half the price as well. I didn't feel that it hurt at high speeds at all and love how it cooled the belt down extremely quickly when you take a break. Gotta think that alone will help with overall belt life when its not just baking inside that cover when you stop. Awesome video by the way sunday sxs. Kept me entertained on a friday night for quite sometime. Love your channel

 

[Sand Shark]

Yep, sure did. The EVO clutch cover adapter fit on there perfectly and I ran the cover on the entire time. No blown belts at all.

This is very encouraging for belt life in the dunes. I can kill belts at will in the dunes. The car is too damn fun not to rip around the big dunes and small stuff.

Which paddle tire set up do your run?

I sure hope Kawi's fix includes a finned secondary.

 

[AXE]

This is very encouraging for belt life in the dunes. I can kill belts at will in the dunes. The car is too damn fun not to rip around the big dunes and small stuff.

Which paddle tire set up do your run?

I sure hope Kawi's fix includes a finned secondary.

I talked with Evo last week and Nick said they have confirmed that Kawasaki has acknowledged they have a CVT cooling problem.

If you look at the design of the LaRue it has fins on the front and back of the primary. Also the back utilizes a thin flat plate that I believe was added to help pull more air through that wierd CVT air inlet that sits behind the primary.

The bottom line is the entire clutch system needs to be redesigned to be effective. They need a more durable primary, better clamping force on the secondary, better belt, and more cooling or you'll never be able to run this thing hard and fully tuned.

If they don't do all that, then we are on our own and have to get an aftermarket clutch and modify the CVT to improve cooling.

 

[AXE]

This is very encouraging for belt life in the dunes. I can kill belts at will in the dunes. The car is too damn fun not to rip around the big dunes and small stuff.

Which paddle tire set up do your run?

I sure hope Kawi's fix includes a finned secondary.

Also there are a number of guys like you that had severe issues with the stock CVT system in the dunes. I think you guys have additional issues with your CVT system. Might be worth pulling the cover and mounting a camera back there and see what it's doing.

Mine seems to function fine, but the heat inside the CVT cover continues to build. If I pull the cover, no more heat problems and can't even get the belt past 200F

I never did have big issues with my stock clutch and many others said the same. For the most part, I don't think there are many people at the dunes who aren't ripping them pretty good. They need to be able to handle that, cause to me it's normal dune riding.

 

[ElQueso]

This is very encouraging for belt life in the dunes. I can kill belts at will in the dunes. The car is too damn fun not to rip around the big dunes and small stuff.

Which paddle tire set up do your run?

I sure hope Kawi's fix includes a finned secondary.

I’m currently running S365s on the front and 16 paddle pro armors in the back. Both are 32s but will likely upgrade to 35s this off-season (Blackbirds) and I always run in four-wheel-drive. I had plenty of traction and those 365s in the front really bit when I needed them too.

 

[ElQueso]

I talked with Evo last week and Nick said they have confirmed that Kawasaki has acknowledged they have a CVT cooling problem.

If you look at the design of the LaRue it has fins on the front and back of the primary. Also the back utilizes a thin flat plate that I believe was added to help pull more air through that wierd CVT air inlet that sits behind the primary.

The bottom line is the entire clutch system needs to be redesigned to be effective. They need a more durable primary, better clamping force on the secondary, better belt, and more cooling or you'll never be able to run this thing hard and fully tuned.

If they don't do all that, then we are on our own and have to get an aftermarket clutch and modify the CVT to improve cooling.

I talked with Evo last week and Nick said they have confirmed that Kawasaki has acknowledged they have a CVT cooling problem.

If you look at the design of the LaRue it has fins on the front and back of the primary. Also the back utilizes a thin flat plate that I believe was added to help pull more air through that wierd CVT air inlet that sits behind the primary.

The bottom line is the entire clutch system needs to be redesigned to be effective. They need a more durable primary, better clamping force on the secondary, better belt, and more cooling or you'll never be able to run this thing hard and fully tuned.

If they don't do all that, then we are on our own and have to get an aftermarket clutch and modify the CVT to improve cooling.

I agree, some Kawasaki engineer did not anticipate the amount of heat that gets generated inside that clutch cover so I guess it’s up to us to figure out how to keep it cool. I’m considering some sort of in-line fan and have researched them and they seem to work at slower speeds and when stopped but perhaps not so much at higher speeds. Therefore, I’m working on an alternative solution for some additional high-speed cooling. I have already done some preliminary testing with a proof of concept so getting some prototypes built now. Stay tuned on that.

 

[Sand Shark]

Also there are a number of guys like you that had severe issues with the stock CVT system in the dunes. I think you guys have additional issues with your CVT system. Might be worth pulling the cover and mounting a camera back there and see what it's doing.

Mine seems to function fine, but the heat inside the CVT cover continues to build. If I pull the cover, no more heat problems and can't even get the belt past 200F

I never did have big issues with my stock clutch and many others said the same. For the most part, I dont think there many people at the dunes who aren't ripping them pretty good. They need to be able to handle that, cause to me it's normal dune riding.

I ran with the cover off and on and the belt runs hot - OEM and Gboost. There is definitely something up with my whole set as far as alignment. I was going to dig into it , but stopped when the stop ride was announced. My dune season ended early due to the stop ride and the fact I was not looking forward to having to buy more belts.

My H2 has killed more belts than all my other UTVs I have owned since 2008. My X3 I could get 1500 or more miles out of a belt before I would replace it and that car only killed a belt when the clutches were worn out. The same ride in Glamis with my X3 I could go as fast as wanted and not worry and with the H2 the belt temps get way up there and you can feel the belt slipping.

I was hoping prior to the stop ride some clutch tuner would have a new helix and spring for the secondary as I do believe that is the root of the issue along with lack of airflow to the secondary. My primary never got stupid hot and has always been much cooler than the secondary.

I don't believe belt temps and belts will be an issue out in the hardpack. When I did a ride from the washes across the dunes and down to duners diner the belt temps cruising at 50-75mph on the sand highway never got hot and the clutches never got hot.

 

[Sand Shark]

I’m currently running S365s on the front and 16 paddle pro armors in the back. Both are 32s but will likely upgrade to 35s this off-season (Blackbirds) and I always run in four-wheel-drive. I had plenty of traction and those 365s in the front really bit when I needed them too.

Those Pro Armor paddles are heavy. I run the 34" Packard Big Foots with the 34" Packard front steer tire.

 

[AXE]

Those Pro Armor paddles are heavy. I run the 34" Packard Big Foots with the 34" Packard front steer tire.

Do those measure out to be 35 inch? I might switch out to them.

I am running SS365 in the rear and really liked them with stock clutching, especially drifting in 2wd. With the Tapp primary, I was getting a lot more wheel spin, so had to drop pressure and run in 4wd to get better hook up.

 

[AXE]

I ran with the cover off and on and the belt runs hot - OEM and Gboost. There is definitely something up with my whole set as far as alignment. I was going to dig into it , but stopped when the stop ride was announced. My dune season ended early due to the stop ride and the fact I was not looking forward to having to buy more belts.

My H2 has killed more belts than all my other UTVs I have owned since 2008. My X3 I could get 1500 or more miles out of a belt before I would replace it and that car only killed a belt when the clutches were worn out. The same ride in Glamis with my X3 I could go as fast as wanted and not worry and with the H2 the belt temps get way up there and you can feel the belt slipping.

I was hoping prior to the stop ride some clutch tuner would have a new helix and spring for the secondary as I do believe that is the root of the issue along with lack of airflow to the secondary. My primary never got stupid hot and has always been much cooler than the secondary.

I don't believe belt temps and belts will be an issue out in the hardpack. When I did a ride from the washes across the dunes and down to duners diner the belt temps cruising at 50-75mph on the sand highway never got hot and the clutches never got hot.

Yeah, I'm waiting to see what they offer for the fix before I spend a lot more. I want reliability first and performance second. It sucks to be broke down on a trip and throwing money at belts and blown cvt covers. That's why Kawasaki needs to come with a solid replacement or they won't sell many of these turds going forward.

I've driven a lot of jap rigs since the 70s and I've never seen anything like this. I did have a reverse gear go out on a Kawasaki KFX 400 quad with only 4 hours on it. Had to split the case to fix it, but it was warrantied. Ported the head and added cams and a tuner when it was torn apart. It ripped after that.

 

[AXE]

I agree, some Kawasaki engineer did not anticipate the amount of heat that gets generated inside that clutch cover so I guess it’s up to us to figure out how to keep it cool. I’m considering some sort of in-line fan and have researched them and they seem to work at slower speeds and when stopped but perhaps not so much at higher speeds. Therefore, I’m working on an alternative solution for some additional high-speed cooling. I have already done some preliminary testing with a proof of concept so getting some prototypes built now. Stay tuned on that.

I tested a ram air scoop i fabbed from some cardboard in the dunes. I think it actually worked some if you ran above 25-30 mph, but it may have been counter effective idling and slower speeds. It was fun to try.

I do know, I've put my leaf blower on the stock inlet and held my hand behind the outlet when it was hot and it pushed so much air through that it felt like a blast furnace. That outlet is in a ridiculous spot sandwiched between the header and exhaust pipe. Should have been straight out the back.

I think thats what @Raidernut was seeing with his RPM fan.

 

[Sand Shark]

Do those measure out to be 35 inch? I might switch out to them.

I am running SS365 in the rear and really liked them with stock clutching, especially drifting in 2wd. With the Tapp primary, I was getting a lot more wheel spin, so had to drop pressure and run in 4wd to get better hook up.

I have not measured them. I have other friends that run them and I believe they said it measures a true 34". It is a big tire and a hell of a lot cheaper than STUs, Sandcraft, or Rogue tires. I got all 4 tires for less than what a pair of rear 35" tires are from the others. You can also order them comp cut from Packard if you want to shave some weight.

 

[AXE]

I have not measured them. I have other friends that run them and I believe they said it measures a true 34". It is a big tire and a hell of a lot cheaper than STUs, Sandcraft, or Rogue tires. I got all 4 tires for less than what a pair of rear 35" tires are from the others. You can also order them comp cut from Packard if you want to shave some weight.

Yeah, they look good! They have to be pretty close to the same size as SS365. I don't think there would be a noticeable difference. I just don't want to have different proportions.

 

[olliechristopher]

One thing for sure, you Glamis dudes are running these rigs well past the indented usage of the average driver. The outcome can only be positive from Kawasakis end. I'm 100% confident this is not going to be just a band aid fix. Kawasaki is going to make good on their good customers like yourselves. Not to mention the aftermarket already seems to be all over this trying to solve the heat issue.

What amazes me is how quickly aftermarket came up with brainstorming and designing and redesigning clutches to keep you guys going!!